it would be a self-inflicted wound on the economy. so to even entertain the idea of this happening, of the united states of america not paying its bills, is irresponsible. it's absurd. >> well, the president has got to get past the debt ceiling in order to achieve his second term agenda, but how does he do it when some republicans are threatening shutdown? chuck todd and howard fineman. chuck, you know, i get the sense i was listening to the late general schwarzkopf, the man shaping the battlefield. he's basically saying if this government gets shut down and we're not paying our bills, it's a decision by the republican-led house of representatives. he wants the story played that way. will the press or can it objectively say that if the government shuts down, it's the republicans, simply their doing? >> when it comes to the debt ceiling if we -- there's two separate questions here. one -- and there's two separate ideas of is there something to negotiate. one is debt ceiling, and what the president is saying there's no discussion on tha